Great commentary, and you are 100% correct!

Seconded. Well said!

Congrats Rhonda and all of your supporters! It is great to see patriotism is still alive and well!

TJ, what if you would have spent your time helping construct a ramp for a disabled vet instead of crafting lame articles like this and writing on your lame blog? This is seriously some of the worst writing and reseasoning I've seen on Patch. "Hastily formed non-profit", ha, nice way to poison the well.

Extremely well stated. While we're at it, can we please stop building statues as memorials and build rehabilitation facilities and employment centers for vets? Let's spend our money really supporting our veterans instead of empty art on public property.

TJ, I am Rhonda Patrick Winkler! I support the Wounded Warrior project, I help the elderly in my community, I am a 4-H Leader who encourages all of my member to give back to the community & our military, I participate in Relay for Life, my list goes on but mainly I give back to others & I appreciate all that I am blessed with. To you this may seem like a waste of time but to me, to my family and my community we are taking a step forward. I would like you to tell a soldier, a veteran or a family whose son, daughter, wife, husband, sister, brother, father that Fighting for The American Flag is a waste of time. How dare you talk about me, like you know who or what I am. It's takes people to stand up & fight for what they believe in, not to sit around & say that one should have done this or that. Shame on you! Also, get your facts right! Everytime I see an American Flag (it doesn't matter where it is) I am reminded of our history and of all the soldiers & veterans. Write what ever you want but for me & my town we believe in the American Flag!!! God Bless America, God Bless Our Soldiers & God Bless Our Veterans!

Dont mess with Western Howard County Country Folks! TJ just messed with the wrong one LOL

Wow TJ....you clearly are an idiot....it is amazing how horrible the reporting in this country has become, you read a headline and automatically assume you know anything and everything about what is going on....you are an American how clearly hate America..... "Still, all are ultimately self-aggrandizing actions taken in the name of “supporting”—without any real support offered—some nebulous concept of the military or patriotism. Everyone wants their piece of the troops, to add an imprimatur of military support to their own personal message. What they don’t seem to want, however, is to labor for those who truly need their help, to work without notice and without widespread recognition." tell me what all you have done except metaphorically piss on the flag....congrats and it is idiots like you that make things worse and keep our country down.....Grow up, support the country that has given you freedom of speech, look a little deeper into what the issue was and figure out what you should be writing about and as opposed to speaking out your butt in the hope of sounding intelligent

TJ,
I can't believe your comments in this article. Clearly you are not a journalist, or lets say a good one. Did you even bother to investigate or interview Rhonda or the Winkler family before posting such remarks which are clearly untrue. As Rhonda states, she is invloved in her community and in helping others through many avenues along with many of us. And yes that includes helping the vets. I myself am involved and belong to organizations that support and help the vets and do fundraisers and projects to help those less fortunate. SO before you to spouting a bunch of bull. Get your facts straight! Oh and by the way, it would be nice to know what you do to support the troops and vets. We'd love to know.

Hey everyone! Thanks for stopping by. For those interested, I am an Operation Iraqi Freedom vet, with 6 and half years on active duty and another two in the reserves. I support Team RWB and am a member of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA).

I appreciate everyone's involvement in their community and with veteran's organizations. That's hard work in support of well deserved causes.

However, I do stand by my original point. I don't think all the effort poured into the flag project, or the legislative support it garnered, was worth the minimal rewards gained. Cloaking it in a patina of "for the veterans" gloss doesn't make it worthwhile, either. I do think a lot of time and money is poured into "veterans issues," like free meals at chain restaurants, that's really just using veterans as advertising props or to promote a political opinion.

Feel free to disagree with my opinions, but I do ask that you refrain from the ad hominem attacks. I may be an idiot/poor "journalist"/Elkridgean that "messes" with Western Howard County, but posting that in a comment doesn't really help anyone, or further this discussion.

I can't drive half a mile without seeing American flags left, right, and center. I don't think one more in a traffic circle, or the ability to plant more in more traffic circles, defends our freedom or boosts vets or, really, accomplishes much of anything. But that's only an opinion. I do know, though, that time and energy could have been better spent.

Ohai,
On this we agree: I am undoubtedly a blowhard.

TJ - I too will add to the litnany of responses here; you really chose the wrong family to talk about your personal pet peeve of nebulous support. I'm an active duty officer from western Howard County & I grew up with the Patrick family. I honestly wish I was as patriotic & community oriented as Rhonda! You couldn't be more wrong & you obviously don't know the values in our community. We still help our neighbors when they need it. The year of snowpocalypse, a neighbors barn crushed under the snow, & they were stuck in FL. Many head of cattle were trapped & hurt (most died) but my dad (a farmer), the Johnson family (Neighbors of Winkler's), & numerous others plowed their way to the family's farm to help. They didn't stop, in the freezing cold, until every cow was accounted for and a vet was called to attend to them. No one asked for anything other than the knowledge that someone would do the same for them. Our community still visits the elderly so they have company, completes honey-do lists for those who can't and are actively involved in community service programs, &Rhonda is one of the community leaders for those programs. You should do some research before you spout off on your own agenda... To think the state doesn't allow the flag does disturb me; I'll be in Kabul this June for 12 months & I want it back up. It does mean something to me, don't discount that.

My husband is a Vietnam Vet and is proud of what is happening in Woodbine. He flies our flag 365 days a year and is happy to see the flag in the circle. People do take pride in the American Flag. As my husband would tell you Once a Marine Always a Marine. Semper Fi (Always Faithful). Proud to be Americans. Fly the Flag proudly.

Just because this particular effort didn't rise to your grandious ideals of how we should help our vets, doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile. Flying the flag on a public right of way should be allowed and not at the arbitrary whim of a SHA employee. Every effort is important, some may be large gestures, some small, but all are important. And because you think this was a small worthless gesture is why you are getting so much flack - you have failed to recognize the extensive programs that Rhonda is involved in and you attack one small sliver of who she is. We think this is a large deal even if you don't. Make it a point to call Rhonda and get to know her...

TJ.....I know exactly what Melissa is talking about and I thank them everyday for what they did for the Woodbine family whose barn fell under the snow....that is what a community does....they help those in need......you have put this article out complaining about a flag being put up and you have no clue why it was put up in the first place or why people petitioned to have it back.....if you have no clue what the deal is don't report anything about it....yes you are an idiot when you spout off at the mouth clearly not knowing all the facts.....Do some research then return with some logic.

PS Thank you for your years of service.

All I can say is thanks Melissa because as you know that is the farm that I grew up on and if it wasn't for you guys and everyone else who came to help there would of been so much more lost. That is how the people from Western Howard County work. They will always work to help each other and will always fight for each other.

Kim, there were many heroes that day, the Johnson's leading the way. Of course, that never made the news so the suburban folks in the county certainly wouldn't have heard. I think there was a story about some little kid slipping on the icy sidewalk that day in the county news section...But I was very proud of our community that day; just as I am when the antique farm machinery club donates much time, money and effort to showcase a vanished way of life to the school children in Columbia who have never seen corn stalks or know where butter comes from; and when the 4-H clubs visit the nursing homes to let them know someone cares and the countless other ways we are a community. Rhonda - Fight on! It's important and especially important as a lesson for our children. They need to learn to speak up for their freedoms, know that the flag is to be respected at all times, and know to work through the system to get things done. I'm incredibly proud of the way this happened. Don't let someone else tell you how to be patriotic - how pompous!

TJ,
First and foremost thank you for your years of service. But as someone who is dating a disabled vet, I have truly come to understand what our flag means. We are a country that has forgotten right from wrong and the values our forefathers wanted us to carry.
Pride in our flag and our country are faltering.
I am sorry it doesn't hold the same meaning for you as it does for my disabled vet. He would have gladly given his life for this country and almost did. The flag represents the freedoms he fought for and still believes in. And as you can see small town America still believes in many of those freedoms and values. God Bless America!

TJ, as a neighbor and friend of Rhonda Winkler, I find it very interesting that you so clearly disapprove of politicians and companies using veterans for gain, whether it be political or monetary, yet you took Rhonda's personal cause (yes, this flag and what it stands for is incredibly important to Rhonda's family and to our community, and it certainly hasn't brought any financial gain to the Winklers) to use for your own recognition in this blog - without much regard for checking facts or taking any time to interview the people involved. I also note that you seem to be critical of the attention given to the story by the Howard County TImes and Fox and Friends, yet have no trouble relying on their reporting for the basis of your story instead of doing your own legwork. Pretty ironic, wouldn't you say?

Why do so many of these comments devolve into personal attacks of TJ or questioning his support of America? His column presents arguments that can certainly be responded to, refuted, or dismissed. Above all, he is offering a service of discussion. I am quite certain he did not mean to personally offend the Winklers, who are clearly wonderful people that are well loved by their neighbors. The Winklers found themselves in the public light and that results in public discussion.

If you read other posts by this writer, you will see that he does not come to any position out of laziness. If you think he is wrong, I know he would love the opportunity to debate. These comments leave no room for debate. Either TJ is a bad person or he isn't. The end. But what about the point of the article? Do we lose the forest for the trees in our discussion of patriotism? How many commenters have thanks TJ for his service, while telling him he has no right to say what he said? That's a farse.

In your rush to discredit and belittle the opinion of the author, who, in fact, put his own life on the line for the flag during multiple tours in the Gulf, I think most of you are completely missing the point. He is not telling you not to fly your flag or be proud of your country. He is rather commenting on the amount of time, effort and media attention granted to a flag in the traffic circle, juxtapositioned against the amount of time, effort and media attention granted to veterans in need. He is not crafting a personal attack against the Winklers, but rather trying to bring attention to how a relatively minor civic matter became one that gained national attention, while so many veterans suffer quietly away from the glare of Fox News television lights.

Maybe rather than making instant assumptions about the author, disregarding him as an unpatriotic "blowhard," you should take the time to consider the fact that the state of Maryland has now, and will continue to have to devote time, money and other resources to creating a system allowing people to decorate roadways as they see fit. Whey it could rather be using the same time, money and resources to help those that said decorations allegedly "help."

So Tom, TJ has a right to get it wrong and call it journalism? We have too much of that already... no thanks. His article was the first conclusory comment, not the ones that followed. Did he expect to speak about an issue that he only saw on the news and not receive feedback? I disagree that he is seeking a discussion on this issue - his tone is demeaning and arrogant. His haughty ideals presumed that the family at issue is a one trick pony trying to seek attention more than regain the right to fly the flag at this particular circle, which is far from the truth.
I agree comments should stay focused on the issue at hand, but he made it slightly personal by his "I know better than you" tone (for example, imagine if the winklers had done this instead... Like one act negates another)
He wrote it, and he set the tone. If it wasn't his intention, then he should have a friend look over his opinion pieces before he posts.

I'm sadden that anyone doing good is criticized. TJ, you clearly have much to learn. You may want to start with researching your stories first! I grew up in Western Howard County and have known Rhonda for over 30 years and I don't know a more caring and generous person. And as for me I believe flying our beautiful flag is always a worthy cause.

Mike: Thank you for your thoughtful response. I'm always sad when people sink to personal attacks rather factual argument. I strongly suspect that SHA doesn't want an unforgiving obstacle like a flag pole in the middle of a traffic circle in the event of an accident. It would be interesting to discover State Highway's reasoning. Perhaps a followup? Also, many of us remember how cruel some people were to Vietnam's veterans, and many of us are trying to find positive ways to help them. Please, let's refrain from the personal insults.

Thanks, LF. While we love issue-based discussion in the comments, we appreciate readers staying on topic rather than making personal attacks. Also, TJ's column is marked "opinion" because it is his take on issues in the news. You are free to share your opinions too.

First let me start by saying nothing has gotten me motivated enough to comment on anything in months due to my own personal tragedy.....but I have stood by and silently cheered for Rhonda and her wonderdul family and friends in their efforts to support our country....If nothing more this situation is putting a so called symbolic gesture in the national spotlight and rousing other people into doing something for there country....and you never know what that may be which could just live up to Tj's expectations.....Tj please remember that it may be your opinion but this farming community is a generous,caring hard working one that does not need or appriciate your judgemental tone. tj thanj you for your service, and remember that everyone who is doing somthing no matter how big or small is contributing to our country..Good luck Rhonda and friends you ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE

TJ,
That flag can also stand as an honor to the thousands of lives lost on 9/11 which started the entire uprising in the middle east with US military and all of the blood lost on that foriegn soil. It also stands for those who have sufferred the loss of a family member at 9/11 or the war that has followed; from Woodbine, or Ellicott City, or Elkridge, or Laurel maybe now you got the point.

That flag flies high for so many different folks and for many different reasons.

I suggest you just agree to disagree and leave it alone!

TJ, First, let me thank you for your 6.5 years of service to this nation. I, like Melissa, grew up in this community and know Rhonda's family well. Also, like Melissa, I am a current active duty member of the Armed Forces and have served over 22 years to this country. While your rant about desperately need veterans facilities certainly sounded fantastic, you were sadly mistaken on your facts. The reality is that you do not speak for all veterans. Nor do you speak for all members of the Armed Forces. Let me ask you, other than what you read in the papers and saw on Fox News, what do you know about Rhonda and her patriotic aspirations? I am going to suppose not much. Yet, you felt it was your duty, as a former member of the military, to degrade her and her cause? Do you even know why the flag was put there in the first place?

I will only speak for myself when I say, Thank You, to Rhonda and her family for placing that flag in that circle. Whenever I return home to Woodbine, that flag puts a smile on my face and lets me know that the community I grew up in supports me and my fellow military members.

If you really want to bang your drum for a cause, why don't you rant and rave about why any act of patriotism or respect to the flag is met with more controversy than if someone stood in that circle and burned it?

Mike, you're reading things into his piece. He particularly challenged Rhonda Winkler to do something more productive than seek to fly the flag. And he queried if Justice had returned to Woodbine, What an inane remark. And since when is the flag merely symbolic? It is THE symbol of our nation, not hyperbole.

I don't even know where to begin on this. As much as I want to blast you, because I too am from Elkridge and sometimes dont think before I say something, I dont think it will do any good. Thank you for your military service. Also, I am glad you that you have a journalism job so that everyone can read your "opinion." Not all of us are that lucky (for a job or to write our opinion). I think you missed your opportunity here TJ. You could have turned this article into something so much more and positive. "Everyone is trying to accomplish something big, not realizing that life is made up of little things." -Frank Clark. What might not seem to be a big deal for you, might mean the world to someone else. How do you know that the "simple little flag" in the circle- just that particular flag doesn't make a difference? It brought a community together. It is a constant reminder to all those who pass it. How do you know THAT flag didnt make someone think twice as they passed it to donate, make a job, or build a ramp? the answer is YOU DON'T KNOW! I do believe a good journalist can write his/her opinion, the best journalist is able to deliver both sides and facts- then let the reader decide. I hope the best for your future articles TJ. As for Rhonda, Keep up the good work. Im so proud of you.

Tj and To all those that agree with his "opinion" -
I am a very good friend and neighbor of Rhonda's and I can tell you first hand that you have the wrong "opinion" of her and what she is standing up for. There is no other family that is more generous, helpful, caring and patriotic. To say that to much time and media attention has been spent on this "relatively minor civic matter" is disrespectful and appalling to me. Maybe you would be willing to explain to the thousands of children that are without mothers and fathers because they have given the ultimate sacrifice for this country and our frerdom, how exactly it is a waste of time. Thank goodness there are still poeple like Rhonda Patrick Winkler who fight for what is right and stand up for what they believe in. I am PROUD to call Rhonda my friend and neighbor.

Smart man. You have small article ....not getting much attention so you find a hot local topic that has national coverage and you write a negative piece to grab you some of the press. You should always research your facts. Rhonda Winkler and the Winkler family do more for a community in a month than I bet you do in a entire year. However I have not done any research on your community service either. My point is your article is just false and it serves as no good real purpose to anyone. If you were a good journalist you would have found out that this small flag raising to support our troops is but a drop in the bucket to the amount of volunteer with work Ronda Winkler does for the community.

Smart man. You have small article ....not getting much attention so you find a hot local topic that has national coverage and you write a negative piece to grab you some of the press. You should always research your facts. Rhonda Winkler and the Winkler family do more for a community in a month than I bet you do in a entire year. However I have not done any research on your community service either. My point is your article is just false and it serves as no good real purpose to anyone. If you were a good journalist you would have found out that this small flag raising to support our troops is but a drop in the bucket to the amount of volunteer with work Ronda Winkler does for the community.

Ryan, the sadly mistaken facts are the following.
-He tries to hint that there are sparse programs out there for veterans. The reality is that there are more programs now than there ever have been. A member separating from the US military today will have many more opportunities than at any other time in our history. The problem is, like TJ, most don't take the opportunity to research and find out what they are.

-He talks about the time and effort, and the money spent, on looking into this. Well, this is what we pay our elected officials to do. They are there to correct insufficient rules, and make them right. And, I won't even go there about the media. First, for the obvious fact that he took the time to ride the coat tails of this story, and for the fact that the little bit of time spent talking about this is nothing compared to the time spent talking about the Occupy morons or the people that burn the flag, hiding behind their right to freedom of expression or free speech.

Finally, he never once mentioned the reason why the flag was put there in the first place. And, until he does, this story is just the opinion of a kid who spent 6.5 years in the military, just enough time to make you think you know something, and now figures he has the right to speak for everyone that serves. My guess is that he got out disgruntled about something.

Hey everyone! I thought it important to leave one more comment to clear up a few last things. Unfortunately, this will be my last comment on this topic, posted in two parts (ran out of room in one).

-I'm sure the Winklers are great pillars of their community, and obviously they have a lot of neighbors willing to go to battle for them. Kudos to them for their efforts!

-For those that thought I rode the coattails of other reporting: totally true. Which is why I reference that reporting in the piece, linked to it, and threw a Twitter shout-out to Kevin Rector, who did the bulk of the reporting. This is Opinion, not original reporting.

I hope you all come back next week for a new article. In the meantime, maybe you want to see my thoughts on the Occupy protests I wrote awhile back. It is true that this is a "little" column- I don't usually get this much attention!

http://elkridge.patch.com/articles/occupy-howard-county

Part two:

For S. Gray:

-I don't think I "hinted" that programs are sparse for vets. I mentioned two robust ones. I do think too much of the public commitment to vets (free meals on Veteran's Day, military members on stage) is undertaken with self-aggrandizing motivation.

-Sure, we pay our elected officials to smooth over our problems. I still think this one wasn't as important as it was made out to be.

-"Why" the flag was put there is actually one of the cruxes of my article. Mrs. Winkler is quoted as to why. We disagree on the relative importance of flying the U.S. flag in a traffic circle in Woodbine, and how much that symbolic gesture actually helps vets- a disagreement that I think is perfectly legitimate on both sides of the argument.

-I left the military for my family. My wife and I decided that the best thing for us was a civilian lifestyle once we had kids. I left when she was pregnant for our first. I loved the military, but understand the sacrifice necessary on the home front to make it a career. Congrats to you and yours for bearing that burden.

Finally, I think this is an important topic to discuss. Thanks to everyone for their passion. I'm committed to open public discussion on local issues, preferably held in a civil manner. And hey- I've written about that too!

http://elkridge.patch.com/articles/the-peak-of-all-history

http://elkridge.patch.com/articles/howard-county-is-not-run-by-nazis

TJ, I believe you are misunderstanding everyone's comments that disagree with you. They are not only going to battle for me, they are supporting our Community & The American Flag! See I am not the only one who is fighting for the right to fly the American Flag, Our TOWN IS! I'm just the one who wrote a letter to the editor of the Howard County Times, first! I believe we all have a right to our own opinion & these are ours. I know many Soldiers, Veterans & families who have lost their sons & daughters who take pride in seeing the American Flag. If you want to point the finger at anyone point it at the State of MD, for not telling the truth & saving face. This should have been handled easily but it wasn't. If we don't take a stand now it will be to late & their won't be anyone left to take a stand. I'm sorry but when you speak about me like you know what I do or should I say "what I don't do", you were WRONG! It is a small step but every step counts. It may not mean much to you but their are plenty that it does mean something to. I have gotten a lot of letters from Veterans & Soldiers. They thank our TOWN or COMMUNTIY for taking a stand. Hey, who knows what tomorrow will bring, maybe I'll give you something else to write your "opinion" about. As for ME & MY TOWN we will continue to keep fighting for the American Flag, Our Soldiers, Our Veterans & Anyone who needs a little help! God Bless America, God Bless Our Soldiers & God Bless Our Veterans!

Whoa fellas - lets take a breath & remember that we're all on the same side. A few of us didn't like an opinion that was posted & we've put our 2cents in to correct the record & possibly change his opinion. But attacking each others service records isn't the way to settle anything. Not everyone can or even wants to serve til retirement. Our structure isn't set up for everyone to stay 20+. And people join for many different reasons - some for education benefits, some for specialized training or experience, some for mere adventure. Whatever the reason, if a person served honorably, they served honorably. End of story. If someone's obligation's up & they choose to leave the service, that's OK. We need civilians who understand (&respect) the military. The way to have that is to have young veterans in the civilian work force. For citizens to serve 1 or 2 tours then return to civilian life. To have many people with some experience with the military is better than a few with a lot of experience.
Many valid points about our community out in the western end have been made, and we stand on that. We won't apologize for standing up to have our flag returned, regardless if someone thinks its not time well spent. In the end, most of us don't really care what TJ thinks, if we're honest about it. But we chimed in because of how wrong he was about this particular person. We did it more for her than for him, lol. But it has ceased to be productive & we should all be better than that.